The concept of a "gear treadmill" or a "gear grind" is an old one that a vast majority of mmorpgs have adopted over the years. The question in many player's mind is often; if there is no gear grind, than what is my incentive to play? This is a question that stems from years of mmo players being used to their characters constantly growing in power. While there are other aspects of RIFT, and numerous other games that many players enjoy, gear progression has always been a staple aspect of the genre.
Players who participate in the PvP in RIFT, however, have felt the grind much more heavily than in other games. One could argue the impact of a gear grind, within other titles, depending on their own personal experience but veterans of RIFT know exactly what we're talking about. The PvP in RIFT has, for many players, been extremely enjoyable because of the versatility of the soul system. Unfortunately, this versatility has long been overshadowed by the gear grind. Over a year has passed since RIFT's initial release back in March 2011. As expected, players have developed several "cookie-cutter" soul builds that have become the norm for many. The development of cookie-cutter builds is bound to happen in any mmorpg but for RIFT, this means the attraction of the soul system has faded even further into the back of many player's minds. So what happens when you take away the attraction of a versatile cross-class system like souls? You're left with one thing, your gear vs your opponent's gear.
This leaves hordes of new-comers to RIFT with a bad taste in their mouth for it's otherwise very enjoyable PvP features. Trion has done an excellent job of introducing new ways to experience the old tried-and-true modes of PvP gameplay, such as capture the flag and domination. But how much fun can you have with these great features when someone who has been playing for over 6 months destroys you in a matter of seconds due to a superior gear advantage?
The removal of a gear-grind could very possibly have the biggest impact on RIFT's success in the future, as well as the success of their upcoming expansion, Storm Legion. Even more so considering Storm Legion will be competing with Guild Wars 2, which is boasting the same concept of "no more gear-grind".
Is removing it a good or bad idea? What could they possibly offer for incentive to pvp, if it goes away? Do you need incentives to enjoy pvp in an mmorpg?
We will be discussing our own opinions about this possible transition for our beloved mmorpg during Episode 24 of RIFT Overcast on Wednesday, August 15 LIVE on http://twitch.tv/riftovercast @ 4PM PST / 7PM EST. What are your thoughts on the pvp gear-grind in RIFT? Let us know and/or come participate in the LIVE discussion on Wednesday!
You can find all the details you need about the testing phase of this change in the thread linked below, posted by RIFT Community Manager, Elrar.
http://forums.riftgame.com/public-test-shard/329494-pts-pvp-normalization-test-tuesday-8-14-4pm-pdt.html
Players who participate in the PvP in RIFT, however, have felt the grind much more heavily than in other games. One could argue the impact of a gear grind, within other titles, depending on their own personal experience but veterans of RIFT know exactly what we're talking about. The PvP in RIFT has, for many players, been extremely enjoyable because of the versatility of the soul system. Unfortunately, this versatility has long been overshadowed by the gear grind. Over a year has passed since RIFT's initial release back in March 2011. As expected, players have developed several "cookie-cutter" soul builds that have become the norm for many. The development of cookie-cutter builds is bound to happen in any mmorpg but for RIFT, this means the attraction of the soul system has faded even further into the back of many player's minds. So what happens when you take away the attraction of a versatile cross-class system like souls? You're left with one thing, your gear vs your opponent's gear.
This leaves hordes of new-comers to RIFT with a bad taste in their mouth for it's otherwise very enjoyable PvP features. Trion has done an excellent job of introducing new ways to experience the old tried-and-true modes of PvP gameplay, such as capture the flag and domination. But how much fun can you have with these great features when someone who has been playing for over 6 months destroys you in a matter of seconds due to a superior gear advantage?
The removal of a gear-grind could very possibly have the biggest impact on RIFT's success in the future, as well as the success of their upcoming expansion, Storm Legion. Even more so considering Storm Legion will be competing with Guild Wars 2, which is boasting the same concept of "no more gear-grind".
Is removing it a good or bad idea? What could they possibly offer for incentive to pvp, if it goes away? Do you need incentives to enjoy pvp in an mmorpg?
We will be discussing our own opinions about this possible transition for our beloved mmorpg during Episode 24 of RIFT Overcast on Wednesday, August 15 LIVE on http://twitch.tv/riftovercast @ 4PM PST / 7PM EST. What are your thoughts on the pvp gear-grind in RIFT? Let us know and/or come participate in the LIVE discussion on Wednesday!
You can find all the details you need about the testing phase of this change in the thread linked below, posted by RIFT Community Manager, Elrar.
http://forums.riftgame.com/public-test-shard/329494-pts-pvp-normalization-test-tuesday-8-14-4pm-pdt.html
The whole point of an MMO is character development, the carrot on a stick incentive to continue to gain power. That power needs to be portrayed in game for people to have real incentives to play. Some may find they enjoy PvP enough to just play but they gain nothing out of it in terms of character progression.
ReplyDeleteAnother issue is PvE dominating through higher PA gains and weapon procs, suddenly PvE weapons and characters in PvE gear have an advantage.
Having goals to work towards is the central dogma of MMO's and removing it, however noble the intent may be, will cause more harm than good. Reduce the deficit between new PvP players and fully kitted ones with small buffs to players with low prestige. I, however, want that fear of meeting someone stronger than myself, someone fully kitted out who worked hard for that respect.
They aren't removing invcentives. This change would be for Storm Legion and would have its own set of incentives whatever those may be. Me and Matt will be talking about some of those ideas on tomorrow's show.
Delete-Khel
Wouldn't more rank-matched warfronts be a much better solution to this?
ReplyDeleteWhile I realize this is a very unpopular opinion, mmos are almost completely gear grinds. Yes, there is skill involved, but getting the gear to make your skill matter is important too. Imagine if they suggested equalizing stats in PVE as well. Now everyone can go straight into ID! It's all about skill, not gear! Bet that would be awesome. (/sarcasm)
People who take PvP seriously rank up and get their gear, and playing with or against people who don't do that sucks. That's why more ranked matches would be a much better solution. Solves that problem on both ends. Honestly, I like MMOs because they give me things to work toward. PvP gear grinding is something to do other than raid-logging. As it stands, it's an investment in my toon. If I didn't want to invest in my toon for PvP, I would just go play GW2 as I'm sure many of the people who are so excited about the PTS event will.
Also, I love how people completely ignore how much easier it is to level up in PvP now with the stats buffering. Everyone up to R40 is buffed up to 1000 valor in conquest and you get a significant boost up to either r13 or r16 in warfronts. No, you are not on equal footing with r50s, but its not nearly the instadeath now that being r1 was a few months ago.
The biggest thing I see about Trions vision of gear equalization is that they are shooting for some sort of baseline stats across the board for PvP. We have the same thing currently with PvP gear (The exception is a few other items that can be subbed in).
ReplyDeleteThe biggest example of a game doing this is Guild Wars 2. And I take it where Trion is trying to get their idea for more competitive PvP. The underlying difference is that in GW2 you have options in terms of gear, you get the base piece, and slot it with one of many, many runes. Allowing you to tailor the gear to the playstyle that you want. Some builds and sets of gear can be more powerful, but you have the option to seek them out, try new things and improve upon yourself as a player, and with a specific build. This system is non-existent in rift. We have soul trees, but one top end set of gear. Their is nothing to play for, or play with other than playing around with different builds. Rifts pvp is hardly strategic, and hardly skill based.
I think it is something that they can make work. But I honestly don't trust Trion when it comes to PvP. They have proved they didn't know PvP very well when it came to conquest (Another thing that could have been an amazing feature, but in the end, is just lackluster.) If Trion comes up with a way to offer more customization to gear in PvP, and balance it from there it would be a great thing. I just don't trust Trion to do it very well.
- Ice_Hole of OMG Im Drunk
Wait - this page says Manchester NH. You guys are over in Manchvegas? I live in Chester, next door. *waves*
ReplyDeleteI tried hopping on to see your live feed, but didn't see anything. Is it over already?
And for more proof of how poorly trion has done with their "test".... http://omgimdrunk.com/Ice_Hole/NewPvPSet.jpg
ReplyDeleteAnd of course all empty slots have to get stacked with rogue/ warrior gear for the strength/ Dex that will increase my clerics melee stats.
- Ice_Hole of OMG Im Drunk
goodbye and good riddance!
ReplyDeleteThe current gear grid is absolutely absurd. I started PVPing on my cleric just after the CQ "get r50 in 5 hours" thing was fixed. I'm rank 21 and I *JUST* got the last piece of PVP armour. Yes, 21 ranks to finish my first set. It takes somewhere around a quarter million favour to get the first set of PVP gear to begin to actually compete on the field.
There are so many other ways to reward players and "show leetness" than pure stats. I actually know players grinding r50 *exclusively* for the top level armour for RP wardrobe sets! Wardrobe items, weapon skins, titles, pets, mounts... the list is long and wide.